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Stay Logged On. Complete Mage. Results 1 to 23 of Thread: Complete Arcane vs. Thread Tools Show Printable Version. Complete Arcane vs. Complete Mage 3. I guess you can just use whatever criteria you want, but I've always related them, since they're kinda similar. I've only really looked at the Prestige Classes, but it seems to me that Mage has the flavor that I prefer with my magic. Powerful, fancy, flashy, fancy stuff. Arcane seems like it's more geared toward the corrupting nature of magic, and some twisted forms of things.

That's just my thoughts. Re: Complete Arcane vs. Complete Mage Well Arcane introduced three new base classes which was a plus. Unfortunately one is Oriental, and reprinted from Oriental Adventures you know the book I'd actually get to use Oriental stuff. Another is a reprint of a 3. The last, and first in the book, is awesome in that it actually expands the game significantly. While I prefer true casters to invokers, warlock adds some really neat options. Complete Mage on the other hand has ACFs for all the core classes and then some.

Focused Specialist is awesome, but I've learned to avoid it unless I want to do some breaking. Now on to PrCs. Complete Arcane has Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil which I actually don't allow in my games. It has a Polymorph specialist which would be neat, except it gives up too many CL and by the time you get really neat abilities you've almost got Shapechange if you didn't take the class and Shapechange is better than all its class abilities.

It also has Sublime Chord which seems really awesome for a bard not game mechanically specifically , a bunch of PrCs updated from Tome and Blood none of which were the most impressive to begin with , and Wild Mage which I love although unless Practiced Spellcaster can be used to overcome it's -3 to CL is really not worth it and even then it's 3 feats for it and there are many, much stronger ways to build a character.

Complete Mage has Abjurant Champion which is awesome for gishes, as in makes making one fun again. It has Eldritch Theurge and Champion which build upon warlock with theurge classes my favorite type of classes. It has Master Specialist which I really like, but gets a little too juicy combined with Focused Specialist. It also has Ultimate Magus which is awesome I love Theurge classes. I couldn't read it all. Tome and Blood did it better and the focus on mechanical and optimization aspects in Tome and Blood was too much compared to Sword and Fist which had fluff suggestions that actually intrigued me.

So in the end Complete Arcane. While the PrCs let me down except for Wild Mage I love it's fluff it introduces good general purpose spells Mage is just filling in the gaps of my spell lists when I want something neat and it introduces warlock which is a delightful addition to the options in the game. Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien. Past Work Expansion Caricatures. Complete Mage I wasn't really impressed with the 3 new classes in CA.

Conversely, CM brought me focused specialist, master specialist, reserve feats, alacritous cogitation and a new line of polymorph subschool spells. In terms of crunch, I think I would find CM more useful. Complete Mage Runestar Alacritous Cogitation was errata'd so it doesn't work on spells with casting times greater than 1 round. I like Complete Arcane because of the potion tiles Otherwise, I'm pretty impartial.

Both have useful stuff I considered playing. Complete Arcane instead has cool ideas but, from a mechanics standpoint, are quite weak. Spellsword, Greenstar Adept, I'm looking your way. Complete Mage Spellsword is actually in complete warrior, but we get your point. Originally Posted by Runestar. Originally Posted by The Giant. But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?

Originally Posted by gogogome. Complete Mage Warlocks also, in general, have some of the most interesting homebrew. That's not really anything Wizards is responsible for. Originally Posted by Zaydos. Quotes: Spoiler. Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus. Originally Posted by subject This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon. Originally Posted by Yukitsu. I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation.

Overall, CArc material has much more balance issues. Still other stuff opened the odd can of worms Precocious Apprentice and Sanctum Spell as means of meeting certain prerequisites early. It still had some perks the Warlock was nice - if weak, Battle Caster a much-needed option for gishes and the Mage Slayer feats were interesting , but that doesn't quite make a good supplement.

On the other hand, CM has generally found a better balance, and the options offered are actual options. Similarly, reserve feats are great in that they are real options, i. Of course, one might argue that some options are strictly better than the default Master Specialist and Abjurant Champion , and that CM's dual progression classes can be broken with certain tricks, but on the whole I'd day it's more balanced than CArc.

Originally Posted by Greenish. Divine Magician? Favoured Enemy Arcanist? THEN tell me with a straight face that 4e came completely out of left field. Complete Mage I roll with C. Mage, on the basis of "it's actually better constructed" and "Warmage sucks, Wu Jen is a reprint, and Warlock isn't a wizard, the thing I bought the book to acquire options for". I love me some Warlocky fun, no denying it, but over all, it's just not what I wanted from the book.

Mage, on the other hand, has a ton of badass ACFs, spells not reprinted anywhere else, PrCs that are both balanced and fun, a new "theurge", which I just looooooove as a character concept, and other awesome stuff, including some fun dissertations on the nature of magic, the thematics of magic, and other such things, which I dearly love reading and writing about. All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices.

I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance. Complete Mage I love complete mage for the classes, but Arcane has some interesting feats and gear in it. I usually use both, but if limited to one, Complete Mage. Complete Mage CArcane has the better PrCs cooler anyway, I'll leave the power discussion to others and the base classes even if I'm not partial to any of them. CMage has reserve feats and the ACFs.

CArcane has the better spells, but they got duplicated in Spell Compendium, which makes it's value as a resource somewhat less. Flavorwise, I like CArcane's weird magic alienist, acolyte of the skin, blood magus over CMage's cast-'n'-blast approach just because it's different than what's offered in the other sourcebooks. No answer to the question, just some thoughts.

Complete Mage building an arcane character without access to both makes me cry a little bit, honestly. Warlock and Warmage the latter is a reprint from the miniatures handbook, by the way are both easy to use if you've never played a caster before Originally Posted by Psyren.

Back from a lengthy vacation from Giantitp. I've been dabbling with 3d printer technology and game design, PM if you're curious. I prefer to call it world optimization.

Complete Arcane: Not a fan of Wu Jen, since while it's a refluffed wizard by another name, I would have expected something beyond odd taboos and spell secrets; being the book that goes after Complete Warrior, you can expect it's not that balanced. Warmage is a really neat class with lots of potential, but that gets shot in the foot because of what it really gains heck, why do you think I made a retooling out of it!?

Face with some spells and a SA expy? The PrCs are a mixed bag. Some really needed a much more appropriate reskinning Acolyte of the Skin has great fluff but seems too vanilla for what it's worth , some need to be reconstructed from the beginning Green Star Adept, what the heck are you!? Many of the classics are there Iot7V, Sublime Chord or "how to get 9th level spells without much effort", Mage of the Arcane Order and some whom are nice Suel Arcanamach, a nice way to get decent arcane spellcasting for a gish character.

Practiced Spellcaster is definitely a godsend for most classes namely gishes, and oddly enough Paladins and Rangers , but then you get Twin Spell and Precocious Apprentice and As for the rest: here's the original version of the ever-useful Magebane, and this version was extremely good; the "potions and scrolls by any other name" makes a nice feel specially with the odd ways to craft potions and scrolls gained by the Blood Magus , but it has its share of broken items Thought Bottle!!

Monsters are pretty similar: Elemental grues are pretty weird, Monoliths are the kind of thing you want to control, Effigies are constructs I'd love to make as an Artificer, but why do spellstitched undead have to exist!? That's giving a rocket launcher and intellect to a RE zombie, haven't you learned that's noxious to your health!?

And then there's the fluff, which has stuff from arcane duels and how to deal with arcanists, but at a primarily "in-game" perspective.


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An errata for Warlocks?

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